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threesixty 9:34 Thu Nov 10
Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Neil Lennon talking about the decline of Scottish football..

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/nov/09/scotland-talent-decline-kenny-dalglish-england-wembley
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“I don’t think the kids get enough football,” Lennon says. “I’ve seen boys in my time come to the academy, train two or three times a week where how much of the ball they see is dependent on the individual coaching session. Then they might travel three hours for a game on a Saturday and only play 15 minutes. If we go on about the 10,000 hours theory as an indicator of elite athletes and football players, we are not getting anywhere near that.

“A lot of ‘ordinary’ kids make up the numbers, which dilutes the quality. I think the quality ones will always come through but I’m not convinced the system works; I mean from eight, nine, 10. I’m not a big lover of coaching kids at that age. My boy is 10, I have been to watch him at boys’ clubs where they don’t see a ball for 20 minutes. That is 20 minutes of a session wasted where he could be shooting and passing.
“Sometimes we coach the natural instincts out of them. Where are the dribblers now? Where are the people who break the lines and take people on? We have become a nation of nice little passers. It has become about the 10-yard pass in front of teams, keeping possession. They don’t take chances.”
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Does this apply to English football as well? Is this really the reason we don't produce great players for the national team? Is this the reason we end up with foreign players all the time because there just coached better at a young age?
Why aren't we radically changing children's coaching? Should under 15s even be playing full 11 aside matches on huge pitches if many of them don't get time on the ball?

Maybe we don't have shit footballers just shit coaches and a terrible coaching system for children?

Hammer and Pickle 10:17 Sun Nov 13
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Well said Boycie.

Anyway, why are wide players so reluctant to take the ball deep anymore? Is it really they can't be arsed to go tracking back the extra 10 yards five times a game?

Boycie 10:12 Sun Nov 13
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

we need to get the ball down the channels, to the byeline and get the ball across so the strikers can do their thing. You know like all the other countries do......

Upton Park Mark 5:54 Sat Nov 12
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

oh

Agree that a lot of kid's football is good. But the parents get in the way of progress and want to win at all costs and for their son to be centre forward.
I run an U11s team in Suffolk and only this morning we have played a match where we have parents shouting to the kids stuff like 'skin him' and 'av him'.
These are the same people who criticise the FA when the England team limp out of tournaments.

ornchurch ammer 3:31 Sat Nov 12
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

A lot of kids football is good.

Starting off with small sided games at U7 (5v5) ensures that all players get more touches of the ball and that they are playing with equipment relevant to their size. The retreat rule up to U11 (9v9) is good as well as it enables them to play out from the back from goal kicks without being marked on the edge of their own box.

As they get older and progress the pitch sizes increase from 5s to 7s to 9s and then 11s. This gradually moves games from being dominated by good fit individuals to promoting team work as the players cant cover the pitch as much as it gets bigger.

The downside is that the coaching is all uniform.
All coaches are taught teacher like which means that they then all go out and coach the boys in the same way which produces a lot of players doing the same thing.

As with everything, variety is needed, Not all passing, not all dribbling. Teaching kids when to make the correct decisions is the way that I see it.

penners28 2:34 Sat Nov 12
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

I just think they should be playing 11 a side as early as possible really. Never did me any harm

wrighty 12:54 Sat Nov 12
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Just letting kids play is really important, no issues with small sided games or small goals though.

penners28 12:14 Sat Nov 12
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Me? Ive retired now

wrighty 10:01 Sat Nov 12
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

What level you playing now?

penners28 9:46 Sat Nov 12
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

They should just let kids play football i think. All this non-competitive shit and not playing full 11 v 11 games until x age is rubbish. I was playing u11's at 7 as my village team didnt have enough players. No luminous boots, or gloves, or headbands, and our manager didnt have a training top with his initials on either. Just 11 v 11 proper football matches.

boleynkid 9:42 Sat Nov 12
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

The decline of English/Scottish football is as much down to the law of averages than anything else. If only 30% of homegrown talent gets to play at the highest level then it doesn't take einstein to work out what will happen to the national team.

. . 5:01 Sat Nov 12
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

“Sometimes we coach the natural instincts out of them. Where are the dribblers now? Where are the people who break the lines and take people on? We have become a nation of nice little passers. It has become about the 10-yard pass in front of teams, keeping possession. They don’t take chances.”

From the youth football I've seen it is to regimented, Could do a lot worse than following Cresswells advice, Go Out on loan and learn your trade in the lower divisions. Worked for him and Antonio

zico 11:49 Fri Nov 11
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

gph 11:32 Fri Nov 11

Well yep I stand corrected but you know what I mean.

gph 11:32 Fri Nov 11
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Zico, wasn't there recently a thirty yard pass from Collins to Antonio's feet? One of the better moments of the game against Stoke?

I liked it, even if you didn't.

stomper 9:35 Fri Nov 11
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

I blame FIFA16
FIFA 15
FIFA....
BLAME EA sports

Alex V 8:23 Fri Nov 11
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

At the same time, passing the ball is not a worthless activity. As we showed at the Euros imo, English players are actually very good at retaining possession and keeping the ball away from the opposition. Yes that team lacked a cutting edge, and there are still major areas to work on. But you can't just keep changing the strategy to chase every trend - it's not so long ago that Spain and Barcelona were world-dominating with very possession heavy, often low-penetration styles. Presumably English coaches are now going to lurch towards a more direct style again - what's the betting in a few years we find England is full of head-down runners who've forgotten how to pass the ball again!

zico 6:10 Fri Nov 11
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

At the same time I think an awful lot of players from 20, 30, 40 years ago would in fact thrive in todays game. Bobby Moore would still be the best defender in England, probably the world and Billy Bonds, Trevor Brooking and Alan Devonshire would have over 100 caps these days. Bonzo was a far better player people give him credit for. Others such as Rodney Marsh, Alan Hudson, Peter Osgood, Charlie George and Stan Bowles would still be outstanding players but would their talent be snuffed out by the work ethic that many Clubs put as their number one priority these days.

Look at West Ham now and how we sometimes knock Dmitri Payet for not chasing back but at the same time we don't have a go at Winston Reid because he can't put a rabona cross onto Michail Antonio's cross!!

Football is all about individuals in a team of 11 and to have a successful team all players should add something different. I don't mind that James Collins can't pass as long as he defends properly. What does annoy me however is James Collins thinking he can pass and trying a 30 yarder to Antonio's feet rather than a 5 yard pass to Mark Noble.

It's all very well trying to just get our youngsters to pass, pass, pass for the sake of it. If you push the passing game too much you then take our the dribblers from our game if we haven't already. How many these days can dribble past two or three defenders and deliver a cross without hitting the first man. How many leaders are there? How many great tacklers are there?, great headers of the ball? Pass, pass, pass just overlooks other important areas of the game that you need in football.

I'm not bothered about how many passes West Ham play, I'm more interested in how many are played forward and with purpose.

Alex V 4:36 Fri Nov 11
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

DJH 4:13 Fri Nov 11

Strongly agree that whatever problems there are, lack of technique is not really one of them.

I don't know enough about Neil Lennon to judge if he has a point or not, but I would guess a lot of those inside football are still generally suspicious of anything even vaguely resembling a modern training method.

DJH 4:13 Fri Nov 11
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

In my 40 years I think the basic technical standard of our footballers is at an all time high and many of those especially defenders who made a living out of the game years ago wouldn't last five minutes today.

I think this as someone has said before has come at a cost of coaching any flair and the element of risk out of players which means very few develop the individual creative that other nations seem enjoy.

Personally we have tried to copy other nations but I think culturally we are pretty different to make it fit to us, as fans and parents too many still demand to see physical and high pressure football even at a young age which is simply not ideal in allowing youngsters to develop creative skills as it generally produces the opposite because offensively most chances come about through mistakes not creativity and defensively we play less risky football to minimise these mistakes.

At an early age I think more needs to be done to allow kids to pass under less pressure other than in attacking areas so they can get use to being comfortable on the ball and able to move in the forward areas more often to be more creative and comfortable in taking risks.

I think in warmer countries this would happen by default that kids teams would retreat defensively to conserve energy requiring the attacking side to be more creative to get through rather than just push up like we do to pressurise opponents into mistakes to get chances.

The physical side can be introduced at a later age but hopefully by then many more would have developed the skills and confidence to counteract it far more creatively than presently is the case.

Lertie Button 4:07 Fri Nov 11
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Bad coaching and soft kids.

Scotland are a few years ahead of England but England's continued decline is inevitable.

You can't coach a snowflake

Serious Drinking 3:14 Fri Nov 11
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

Perhaps one shift is that many English players these days don't have hunger or toughness of former days. Something is different in the culture. No offence, but many seem like weaklings rather than warriors. You used to see Butcher and Adams in our dressing room. Now you see millionaire kids wrapped in cotton tweeting on their headphones.

zico 1:25 Fri Nov 11
Re: Bad coaching - the decline of English footballers?

I think you could argue that the quality of footballers world wide is on the decline these days rather than just in England. Look at the quality of the last European Championships or the World Cups of the last 8 or so years, on the whole the quality was pretty dire.

The Dutch are going through a barren time right now and the French, Germans and Italians have had their low points in recent years. The Hungarians haven't produced any real quality for decades and even the Brazil and Argentina lack the quality that they had back in the 70's and 80's.

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